Listen to the podcast here:

In this International Women's Day Feature, Corinna is joined by a fellow podcaster, Sedruola (Sedie) Maruska. Sedie hosts Diversity Dish, a podcast focused on building a more fair and equitable society. Corinna & Sedie talk about language, the power of communication, and how we can all do better by seeking to understand what another person's experience in life is like. You'll learn about microaggressions and what makes them micro (or even macro) aggressions. This podcast invites you to listen to the experience of other people, to trust in what they tell you about their experience -- and how that can be an important first step in building a better society. You'll also hear about an incredible microfunding not-for-profit, and why you should seek to support women in businesses around the globe.

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Links Discussed:

Hidden Brain's Mind Reading 2.0: Why Conversations Go Wrong with Deborah Tannen: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/why-conversations-go-wrong/

Invest for International Women's Day and get $50: http://kiva.org

Sedruola Maruska, Host of Diversity Dish

Sedie is a social justice, equity, inclusion and diversity consultant and coach, host of the award-winning podcast Diversity Dish, speaker and aspiring author. She’s a graduate of Andrews University with a BA in Graphic Arts, a former Conversational English teacher, Corporate Trainer, and Executive Assistant. Her passion is helping individuals in business cultivate cultures of equity and inclusion, so they attract the diverse partnerships they desire.

Sedie's Sites, Podcast & Social

Website: https://diversitydish.com

Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/sedruolamaruska

Instagram: https://instagram.com/sedruola

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Diversity, Communication & Investing in Women with Sedruola Maruska, Host of Diversity Dish

Hello, fellow do-gooders and friends. I'm your host Corinna Bellizzi, an activist. Who's passionate about social impact and building a better, more sustainable future. Every week. I invite you to care a little bit more so that together we can all create a better world. And today I'm thrilled to be joined with a friend in the world of podcasting.

Who's working to ensure that we do just that, that we create a more just. Equitable world for everyone said Rola Mariska is a social justice, equity inclusion, and diversity consultant and coach. She hosts the award winning podcast called diversity dish enjoys public speaking, and is an aspiring author.

She's even a graphic artist too. Has a BA from Andrews university. Her passion is helping individuals and. Business cultivate cultures of equity and inclusion. So they attract the diverse partnerships that they desire to build. Sedie. Welcome to the show.

Thank you Corinna. It's good to be here.

I always love interviewing other podcasters because for one we tend to not have the audio issues and some others. Um, and also it's just really nice to connect and get to know one another shows. I've had the pleasure of listening to a few of yours and I enjoy just the overall production and how you cover sensitive topics.

So before we get into that, I'd like to understand a little bit more about your background in another spot that I didn't cover in your intro. And that is your background as a conversational English teacher.

So the reason I bring this up is I want to know what it's like to do something like teach conversational English. When language is so rapidly changing, especially if you happen to be teaching people who do not come from this country or don't have English as a first language.

Yeah. So that was many years ago. And I actually lived in Korea for 10 months and taught conversational English there. And. The beautiful thing about it was that the students were very eager to learn, of course, because many of them were adults out of school, but they were doing it so that they could get promotions at work.

What it forced me to do though, was to slow down and to be a better listener because they were learning how to pronounce in 98 different things in English. And I was teaching the mat, but I was also wanting to hear. Who they were. So I had to listen intently and maybe sometimes they didn't have the right words, but I had to be able to say, okay, they probably mean this and then kind of dig into that more.

So it was a real foray if you would, if you would, in true, true communication because of the, I feel that the harder it is sometimes for you to have the same words, the more intent you are on being able to understand someone that you're speaking.

Yeah. And I just have to say having the experience of living in another culture just generally makes you more empathetic as a human being about what is likes to try to get by and a space that feels a little foreign.

Absolutely. It was. I say all the time that it was the best thing that I ever did for my future self was going to Korea and teaching conversational English and being there for 10 months, being away from family, being away from. Comfort things, all the things that we're home and just going out and saying, you know, I can do this and just meeting a whole new group of people and a whole new way of life.

It was, it was the best thing I ever did for my future self, because like I said, it forced me to. Look at communication very closely and differently. We don't realize how. Fast. We talk everyone in their own language to the language that they're comfortable in. They speak very fast. We speak very fast, but it forced me to slow down, which forced me to slow down my thinking.

Slow down my speaking, slow down, my listening, slow down. My reactions. Slow down. Everything and be a lot more intentional, especially at that time to be more intentional with how I spoke, what I said, the words that I used and being, making sure that I was, that we were communicating and that was the most important.

Yeah.

So I think that's really important to remember what I do find myself doing when I speak to somebody who is from a different country. And that obviously speaks English as a second language is I start to speak more slowly and over pregnancy. Every word. And it's like, I, maybe that was an exaggeration, but I do tend to do that because when I went and learned to speak French fluently, that was the thing.

Like, you'd start to get the first part of the sentence, but by the time they got to the middle of it, you were starting to get lost. And then this last part you're like, okay, I don't, I really don't know. I know it was something about like, you want to eat something and then something else after that. And I really have no idea.

They could have asked me if I felt like eating. Chabot or horse. Right. So I have no idea,

Right? Yeah. You know, the thing that I find is what's best to do is to kind of speak in the same pace that you would normally speak slow down just a little bit and not too exaggerated because when you slow it down exaggerated, you make the other person feel that, that you think that they're done.

Or that they think that they can't catch up with you, but if you slow down just a little bit and you take pauses and allow for pauses and space, it doesn't sound as exaggerated. And it gives them an opportunity to hear and understand what your. Without making them feel stupid. Right. And then it also gives them the opportunity to say, oh, will you please slow down?

I didn't understand that word, or I don't understand what you're saying. Then you still have, you have all this space to work with. Right. It's like, oh, okay. Now you can slow down. Enunciate better. And you can maybe even explain the word that you're using so that they know what you're talking about, but initially it's best to slow down just slightly slow enough that you sense it.

But not that they don't sense it. And then to put space in. Like I'm doing that.

Well, I think that's good advice for anybody because, um, I just listened to an episode of Hidden Brain, which is a very popular podcast. And I'll post the link to this one in this episode. So people can go to it. I'm not going to have a chance to look it up.

So I don't remember the research. At this point, but, they did a deep study. They got some people together from California and from New York over a dinner. Right. And these are all English speakers. They're all speaking English language. They all understand one another. There's no problem there. Right. But there were regional habits that were quite.

And the regional habit that was much different was that New Yorkers didn't pause as much between ideas. And so it always sounded like they might've been interrupting one another. And so the Californians felt like they couldn't get a word in edgewise or. The new Yorker, might've been a little bit rude or disrespectful because they were talking over other people when really it was just excitement and they were keeping the conversation going.

And the new Yorker on the other hand would start to feel uncomfortable because the Californian person wasn't saying something yet. So now they're filling the silence. And so this is just a conversational difference that I think we can all benefit from learning a little bit about maybe getting comfortable with.

That's so funny that you said I am a new Yorker and I lived in California. And so I can totally see what you're what you're saying, because you're right in New York, we're just, we're going, we're going a mile a minute. And that's why a lot of times people do feel that new Yorkers are brash or they're, they're, they're insensitive or they're not listening and it's not true.

It's just that the pace that you're getting. In New York requires you to speak quickly. You know, I've lived in New York, I've lived in Atlanta and I've lived in California and. Reading the room has always been incredibly important when, when I went from the Northeast down to the Southeast and I was on the phones, I was a customer service rep and how to answer the phone, you know, I would answer it and quickly say what I was saying.

And then the other person on the other line would say hi, and I would go, oh, wow. It's going to be a long conversation because you knew the link that it took them to say hi also was going to be well, Collin, because, and it's a very Southern thing because it's a slower, slower pace. And here's this New York girl going, oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You know, and I really had to then also. Retrain myself to slow down because this was after Korea. This is active teaching conversational English, and you're in the United States. And like you say, we're speaking the same language. But regionally, we are so different. Right. I went to California.

I was like, wow, this is a really slow, much slower piece than I expected. Okay. And it's the same with the speech. It's just. From New York. It's, uh, when you get there, it's electric, you know, you get there and you feel the fast paced, no matter what you're doing, you feel that it's electric and it's going, and we're going, and we're doing this.

And we're, you know, I just came from New York last week. I love it. I love the city. I love the pace. I love the people because I know new Yorkers and I know that they have the big hearts. They are. They're there for people. They're just. They just do it faster, than you and for me.

I live in California and have most of my life, but I'm like a fish out of water here.

I go to New York and I'm like, I get this I'm at this pace. I'm ready to go. You know? And so it's just, I don't tend to like super crowded places. I like living more countryside, but I'm the fastest Walker people tease me on Y Hey lady. You're you're on Hawaii. Slow down. Just like. What do you mean? It's like the elevator, how come it's so slow? I have stuff to do. Chop chop. I'm going to get to my vacation right now.

Right, right. We, and we have to remind ourselves of those things all the time. Right. I have to remind myself sometimes I I'm driving and I'm going really slow because I live out in the country and. The fastest speed limit is 40. So you're driving 30, 35 most of the time. And then I driving down to New York and get to Connecticut and I'm like, oh, I got to pick up the pace here, you know?

And by the time you'd get to New York, you're like, oh, I'm a New York driver. I won't even try if I know I have mass plates done.

Yeah, you almost need to stop and change. The plates they'll be treated differently,

That might be illegal.

So I want to dive into a conversation that I've been having in different communities as I, as I do podcasting, but also, you know, with my husband and other people around me, which relates to something that touches on a lot of your expertise.

And that's this concept of changing links. Because language is constantly changing. And what we're now hearing more about, which is terms like microaggression and how like HR companies or the HR divisions within companies are now even starting to send things out to educate us on, you know, the roots of certain terms and why they might be offensive and, and how we might navigate or change or shift our vernacular because of the roots of.

So I wanted to hear your perspective, like how you bring this up and help demystify what microaggressions really are and how we can all be more supportive. It's a big question. I know!

It's a huge, sorry to put you on the spot, right? Okay. So micro aggression. First of all, then they don't always have to be micro.

Sometimes they're very blatant, but their aggressions. So when I think of, of microaggressions, it's not always the words you use, so, which is why I, you know, I'm listening to your question. I'm going, you know, let's, let's split it up. It's not always the words you use. It's sometimes how you use words that are okay to use.

For example, I was in North Dakota with my then fiance. So he's my husband. Now he's from North Dakota. He's a white man and we were taking a walk and we were coming up to these students. And one of the kids broke away from the group, walk towards us and walk past us and said, hello. And I knew that there was something up.

She walked past us, said, hello? We said, hello. And then we kept going. Then as we got to the students, one of them said, well, I said, That was the microaggression. It wasn't what they said, because you can say what's up to anybody. It was the way they said it. And I knew that that was a microaggression. We kept walking and then they started acting out behind us.

And that's neither here nor there. It was a, not a good situation. And that's just to say that sometimes microaggressions simply sometimes are. Especially when we're talking about wording and words. Yes. There are some words that you don't want to use. I don't like the word tolerance. I hate it. When people use the word tolerance to say that we need to be more tolerant of people because I don't find it to be a benevolent word.

I find it to be very offensive. Actually, what you're saying is you may not like it, but you're going to do it anyway. And nobody likes to be told to do that. And there are words like grandfathered, which a lot of us don't know comes from during reconstruction when black men were given the right to vote, they put in these rules where now, if you could only vote, if your grandfather had had the opportunity to vote.

So that meant that who could vote white men could vote, right? Not black men because their grandfathers. Enslaved people. So that's another one.

I had no idea. I had no idea that's where that came from. It's ignorance. Right?

But you know, you, you, listen, you hear, you learn, you grow, but microaggressions, a lot of times has to do with the.

And the emotion that you put behind, something that you're saying, and sometimes you may not even realize that that's what you're doing. I had someone on my podcast, he told a story of how he was walking on campus towards some white people coming towards him. There was a white person in front of him and the person who was coming towards them.

Hello to the white person in front of him. And then when he got to him, they were like, what's up. Right. And that's something that you experience as a microaggression, but for example, Corina, if I were to come to you and say, somebody said to me, what's up, you're going to go. And

Right. Like, are you being over sensitive?

Yes, exactly. The thing is I can see to you. You weren't there, you don't understand, but even if you were there, you may not understand. I might not have seen it. I might not have understood, not have seen it. You would not have understood. My fiance was there. He didn't see it. He didn't understand it until I explained it to him later.

And then he felt terrible, but that wasn't the point. The point was for him to understand that he's getting married to a black woman. He's going to have to kind of open his eyes a little bit more and more and more foot. She has. Those are the types of things that, that we endure. And that's why they're called microaggressions.

There are things that we endure that we can't necessarily report or really speak about to other people, because they're not going to understand what we mean by that. And we carry it because we know we know what it was because of what was behind it and what was behind. It is not something that you can prove.

It's something that you can sense and that you can feel. It's like when people sense spirits, if you want to put it that way, you know, you may not see it. You may not feel it, but they do is very real. It is. It's a very real thing. When someone says, you know, that shouldn't have happened and someone else is like, well, I don't know what you're talking about.

You're really being too sensitive. Are you just reading into it? It's not that it's usually believe someone if they tell you that, that, that a certain thing was a microaggression because. Seeing it from a perspective that you are never going to be able to see. So

I want to draw people's attention to something else, because I think that, you know, anybody who's experienced sexual harassment, it can kind of really closely touch on the same stuff because the law essentially says that it has to be really blatant and repetitive, but you could be.

ongoing way through these little minor things where someone looks you up and down every day, you come into the office and says, wow, you look great today. Or I need that dress on you or whatever.

It's not about what they say necessarily. It's about how they say it, right? The

The tone, the look. Every little thing.

So I think if we make it real in that way, like if you're a woman that's been in the workplace and felt like you were kind of belittled that way in an ongoing capacity, it's kind of the same sort of thing. That's what we're talking about here, right?

Yes.

You know, my husband works for Joby aviation and the company sent out a notice about microaggressions.

Right. And he was going through the list and read some of them to me. And I was like, I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea. So many of them that I'm just like, I'm going to step on a landmine someday. I have no idea that I, that I even did just like with what you just mentioned, grandfathered, which I, I'm not sure if it was in the list cause he didn't give it to me to read, you know, it's a company.

Communication was just like, did you know that? No can do is a negative reference to Asian-Americans when they are making fun of the, how they would say things in a structural way, in a sentence. I'm like I had no idea. I thought you were just, yeah. It's like almost Yoda, Yoda-izing or something. Right? So you just reverse the language a little bit, but I mean, it makes sense now

I remember when star wars episode one came out and people were very annoyed by Jar Jar Binks.

Yes, for a lot of reasons.

These things can creep in, right? They creep into technology. They can creep in, they creep into our arts, they creep into so many things that we do not realize. And they're just there.

In that case... I had a problem with that, on day one, I'm sure a lot of people did. And then we see Disney making apologies for some. That I didn't have as much issue with. And I'm like, yeah, you know, what's, what's really happening here. Like, but I also get it. Like, we just need to be more, I think, aware of what our prejudices and pre assessments of, uh, people are and when we're basically making the.

Into a stereotype and then assigning a character to it that may not present that culture or people in the best light. It's like making fun of it just in doing so. And I think that's, you know what, we're seeing an evolution now where people are actually starting to be more sensitive to this sort of.

Yeah. And I think that that's really important, I think, and I think it's a really great thing that we become more sensitive to each other, that we learn more about each other. You know, I've lived this life as a black woman. That is my experience as a black Haitian woman. That is, you know, I have several layers on there for different things.

I've never walked this earth as a white woman. I've never walked this earth as a trans woman. I've never walked this earth as someone who is LGBTQ. So I have to defer to them to say, what is offensive or hurtful to them and to their experiences, because I don't know what I could do that may be hurting them, but my job.

Is not to disregard what they say. They're feeling. My job is to say, I did not realize that what would be a better way to go. And that's what I want more people to do when they encounter racial microaggressions, right. To black people and to brown people and to Asian people. If someone says, you know, that's, that's a little offensive.

Get defensive and don't feel bad because feeling bad is not necessarily going to help. Don't feel bad and just clam up, but you're going to feel something you're going to feel discomfort. You're going to feel uncomfortable, but then ask so that you can understand better. Why. Was offensive, why it caused hurt, why it impacted the way that it did and then move forward because then you can build trust and that person will then feel better the next time to say, Hey, don't I don't please.

Don't say that, you know, and you'll be like, oh really? Why? And it'll be a much easier conversation. Then you become, begin to normalize this conversation of this is my perspective. Okay. Thank you for sharing that with me right back and forth. Now we're actually having our conversation about this rather than there being a wall put up.

No conversation. And then we're right back.

We're right back to conversation. Exactly. This is where we started, right? Like, and I think it comes down to respecting the individual and really trying to understand how another person might experience life, how another person might experience language, how a term could affect somebody and ultimately.

If we are kind of just brazenly saying, well, you know, you're just being over-sensitive and I'm going to go on the way I've been going on. Eventually, you know, that's really going to hurt somebody, or it will alienate you so much from a group of people that you might want to be associated with. That you'll find yourself alone eventually on an island and some other ways.

So I think, I think that's important. I know that we're still getting to a spot where people are getting comfortable with this shifting language around gender and, you know, referring to someone as them or they, as opposed to he or she, you know, I imagine that difficulty will continue for many people. And one of the things that I counsel people in my community to do is just say, Hey, like when you.

Own it and, you know, try to do better next time. Better. Yeah. And you know, so if I don't care if I'm referred to as a she or her or them, or they, I mean, I don't, I don't care. It's it's fine for me. I identify mostly as a woman. I have a female body I was born into, but you know, there was a period of time when I was younger when I wasn't so sure about that and felt really alone and out of place.

And when you feel really alone and out of place, you're already otherized in a way. And we know if that's a word you said...

I think you understand what I mean.

But, you know, if you feel like you're other you're disconnected, you're more likely to become depressed, feel isolated, have that slippery slope lead to something else that could, and in suicidal tendencies that are very unhealthy and we don't want to be pushing people in that direction.

So I think if we can just be generally more accepting and loving and how we approach one another. Well build a better future. We'll have more equity. We won't be sitting here kind of feeling like we have to dance around topics and who knows. We might not develop such stereotypical verbal tendencies that could be offensive to somebody.

In the first place,

Right? Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.

Now one of the questions I ask many of my guests is, you know, if they have a charity that they want to support or a company they want to feature during our talk. And you mentioned specifically company that I was already familiar with, so I didn't have to do any research because I read an entire case study on them.

And that is key. So I wanted to offer you the opportunity to share why, like, why you think Kiva is a company we should know about and then also offer you some my own.

When I donate through Kiva, I donate mainly to women and there's very specific reason for that, but I like Kiva because it allows people to take ownership of what they do it.

Doesn't say here. We're going to do for you. It says here, we're going to give you the funds so that you can do what it is that you want to do for yourself. We're going to help you do this because a lot of times it's the access to money. That's not available. The reason that I mostly donate to women invest in women is because I believe that women around the world are.

If you can uplift women around the world, you will uplift a whole full society women, historically, that has been their role. If the women in the village or the city or the county, whatever it is, if women are banded together, if women are, are doing and are enterprising the whole. Community benefits. Women tend to take care of their community.

It's not necessarily the way of men. Um, I think that it is more of a feminine thing, but that's one of the reasons why I mostly donate to women on Kiva and the. Being able to build their businesses themselves is the reason that I donate to Kiva in the first place. I think that the idea of micro loans is an incredible idea and it is an incredible thing to allow people to be able to do.

What they want to do within their means. So that's why I, that's why I choose Coupa.

Well, that's great. You know, I, I learned about Kiva and that's K I V A, kiva.org. Now, they are, I wouldn't call that a donation per se, because you're investing, right. You're making an investment in a particular individual, and you can actually find out about the people that are receiving your loan and the benefit that is doing in their community.

Some of the earlier controversy that they ran into. Co-founded company by two Stanford graduates. They decided they wanted to break into micro lending and help level up people and other communities around the globe. They ran into some controversy because, um, some of their repayment practices early on, they didn't realize they were kind of essentially operating through a sort of big system and local enforcers were rubs doing some things.

Of a board that they didn't really know about. So they've had to tighten things up and really kind of grow because they exploded very, very quickly. Right. So what I like about Kiva now in their present state is that they're still doing all of those things, but in a very mindful way, and the nefarious practices have been extricated from the company.

So if you happen to have read about any of that at any point, you know, you don't have to worry about that anymore. Right? You can do donations. Um, Small of the amount of donations or investments, rather as I think $5 repayment is something like 96%. So most of the funds that people donate actually gets back to them and it potentially could also grow.

And then you could choose to reinvest that money and kind of keep the cycle going over a long period of time.

Yes, that's the other thing I really like about that whenever I get repayments. It's money that I've already invested anyway, that is already in their system. So I just reinvest it in another person.

If I paid $25 and that $25 keeps going and going and going and going. That's great. Yeah,

So you're just helping somebody else. It's like paying it forward. That same money can actually be paid forward. Multiple times creates a good, yeah. I love that. I think that's a phenomenal model for that reason.

And so anyone here can go ahead and go to kiva.org. Neither of us is compensated for this. We're just, you know,

International women's day falls on March eight. Awesome. You know, there's a sign up where you can actually get $50 to lend just by signing up. So it's sort of a promotion that they're doing right now for international women's day. And I just want to say overall everyone here, I mean, this, I think has been a real.

Good conversation about the power of language and our own personal power to make a more equitable present life for people living right now and in the future. So I want to also invite you, however, just, uh, to offer any closing thoughts. If you have a question that I haven't asked that you wish I had, or if you have a closing thought that you'd like to leave our audience.

You know, my, my main thing is that I work with entrepreneurs and small businesses. And the reason that I've chosen that demographic is because it is pretty much 99% of the businesses in this country employing about 49% of the workforce. And a lot of times. Demographic that section of the workforce doesn't believe that they have a voice or that they can make a difference or that it even matters for their business to be involved in conversations about equity, inclusion, social justice, or diversity.

And it really is because if they're not involved in this conversation, that's 50% of the population that is saying it's not my problem. Okay. It's not something that I can do anything about, but what we all need to understand. And what I like to let people know and understand is that you, as an individual, you are part of that company.

You make up your industry, you make up your business, you make up your company. And so when you take ownership and your power back and you put it back into your business, just like we were. You know, investing in Kiva and you put it back into your business and in your business, puts it back into the, into the workforce.

You are actually making a huge difference. So if you have questions or core concerns, or if you, if you're just confused about any of this, I would be more than happy to, to work with you. But I think it's so important that small businesses really take. Ownership of the part that they can play in dismantling and changing the way that we do.

Well, I think that's a perfect note on which to end and what I will say to everybody listening today, or watching on YouTube or Facebook or wherever you happen to be absorbing this content that you can find out more about Sadie and everything that she is working to do through her website, which is simply diversity, dish.com.

You can also listen to her podcast. I encourage you to add it to your feed. It's simply delightful. And she edits all of those shows. And so she deserves a round of applause from all of us for doing it, because I have to tell you that's a lot of work, so thank you, Sadie, for everything you're doing in the world of podcasting, you very much deserve that award.

And I hope you see another one come soon.

Thank you so much. Corrina has been an absolute pleasure.

Well, it's that time? Isn't it. At this point in our conversation, I like to ask all of you to ask. It doesn't have to be huge. It could be as simple as going to diversity, dish.com, adding Sadie's podcast to your feed, or just sharing this episode with those in your community that you think would benefit.

My humble opinion. That would be pretty much everybody. You could even just grab their phone, add this to their playlist and hand it right back. Now, if you want to learn more, and if you're thinking about what you can do personally, to be more of the change that you want to see in the world, I invite you to visit.

caremorebebetter.com. I will include links to everything we discussed today in show notes, including that episode of the hidden brain that I mentioned at the top of the show, you'll also find links to Sadie's work her social channels, what we're doing in the community. And also if you sign up for our newsletter, you can actually get a five step guide to unleash your inner activist.

Each of us can be a part of the change and it will take all of us to meet. And a more positive direction. Thank you listeners now. And always for being a part of this pod and this community, because together, guess what we can do so much more. We can care more and we can be better. Thank You.

Important Links:

• Diversity Dish Podcast: https://diversitydish.com

• Hidden Brain's Mind Reading 2.0: Why Conversations Go Wrong with Deborah Tannen: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/why-conversations-go-wrong/

• Invest for International Women's Day and get $50: http://kiva.org