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In this engaging episode, Diana Chapman, a renowned facilitator, author, and leadership coach, joins the conversation to discuss conscious leadership, resolving conflict, and reducing drama in personal and professional relationships. With over 1,000 top-tier leaders from companies like Genentech and Asana as her clients, Diana brings unique insights on improving human connections through curiosity, empathy, and the practice of arguing the other side. Originally published in June 2022.

Listen to the podcast here

Key Topics Discussed:

  1. The Full-Body Yes: Diana introduces the concept of the "Full-Body Yes," derived from Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks. She explains how aligning head, heart, and gut can lead to more impactful decisions by tapping into all forms of intelligence (IQ, EQ, and Body Intelligence).
  2. Curiosity in Conflict: Diana emphasizes curiosity as a powerful tool for resolving conflict and building bridges across differing perspectives. By asking open-ended questions with genuine interest, we create room for understanding and connection.
  3. Arguing the Other Side: Diana shares how she helps teams and individuals improve their decision-making by encouraging them to argue for the opposing side of a debate. This practice can reduce righteousness and open minds to different perspectives.
  4. Drama Triangle: Diana explains the Drama Triangle (Victim, Villain, and Hero) and how it perpetuates reactive behaviors in conflicts. She discusses how stepping out of the triangle and taking radical responsibility can transform relationships and promote constructive dialogue.
  5. Climate Change and Activism: Addressing climate activism, Diana offers a fresh perspective by encouraging activists to shift out of the Drama Triangle and embrace curiosity. This allows for more effective change without falling into judgmental or righteous mindsets.
  6. Radical Responsibility: The conversation touches on the importance of taking ownership of the circumstances we create, both in our personal lives and leadership roles. Diana encourages listeners to examine how they contribute to the dynamics they face and shift from blame to responsibility.

Key Takeaways:

  • Curiosity Leads to Transformation: Staying open and curious in conversations, even with opposing views, helps foster creativity and problem-solving.
  • Arguing the Other Side: This practice deepens understanding and reduces defensiveness, leading to more thoughtful decisions.
  • Awareness of Drama Patterns: Recognizing how we fall into the Drama Triangle is essential for shifting into conscious, solution-oriented leadership.
  • Climate Activism Beyond Drama: Effective activism comes from conscious leadership, not judgment or blame, allowing for more impactful and sustainable solutions.
  • Morning Tears Practice: Diana shares her practice of starting the day with "morning tears," allowing herself to feel heartbreak as a way to stay connected to humanity and present.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills, improve their personal relationships, or make a positive impact in the world by staying curious, open, and responsible.

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How to Embrace Conscious Leadership and Create Change by Arguing the Other Side: Insights from Diana Chapman

In today’s polarized world, navigating personal and professional relationships can be challenging. But what if we could improve our connections, resolve conflicts, and foster creative solutions by staying curious and even arguing for the opposing side? In a recent conversation with Diana Chapman, a leadership coach and co-author of The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership, we dive deep into the principles of conscious leadership and how these approaches can transform both your work and personal life.

The Full-Body Yes: Aligning Head, Heart, and Gut

One of the most powerful insights from Diana’s work is the concept of the “Full-Body Yes.” This idea, which she learned from Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks, emphasizes the importance of aligning three centers of intelligence: the head (IQ), the heart (EQ or emotional intelligence), and the gut (body intelligence).

When all three centers are in harmony, we’re able to make more impactful and thoughtful decisions. Unfortunately, many of us are trained to rely solely on the rational mind (IQ), often dismissing emotional and instinctual intelligence. Diana explains that by learning to listen to our gut instincts, especially when we’re open and curious, we can access valuable feedback that might not be immediately logical but still holds essential truths. This kind of alignment leads to better outcomes in both leadership and life.

Curiosity as a Tool for Conflict Resolution

In today’s hyper-polarized environment, we often shy away from discussing difficult topics with people who hold opposing views. This fear of conflict often prevents meaningful conversations. Diana advocates for using curiosity as a tool to bridge these divides. When we approach a conversation from a place of genuine curiosity—asking questions like, “Why do you believe that?” or “Where did your perspective come from?”—we create space for understanding.

Curiosity enables us to resolve conflict without becoming defensive or reactive. Instead of seeking to prove someone wrong, we can explore their perspective and find common ground. Diana believes that curiosity not only fosters connection but also opens the door to transformation. It allows us to wonder, explore, and create something new from seemingly irreconcilable differences.

Arguing the Other Side: A Practice for Conscious Leadership

One of the most impactful exercises Diana shares is encouraging leaders to argue for the opposing side. Whether it’s in the boardroom or a family debate, she asks people to step into the shoes of those they disagree with and argue their point of view with as much passion as they argue their own.

This practice helps reduce the righteousness that often accompanies our personal beliefs. It forces us to see the validity in other perspectives, fostering empathy and opening the door to creative solutions. In Diana’s experience, once people argue for the other side, they become less attached to their own position, making collaboration and compromise more likely.

The Drama Triangle: Breaking Free from Reactive Patterns

Diana also discusses the concept of the Drama Triangle, a model developed by Stephen Karpman. The Drama Triangle includes three roles: the Victim (who feels powerless), the Villain (who blames others), and the Hero (who tries to fix things temporarily without addressing the root cause).

According to Diana, many leaders and activists fall into these roles without realizing it. They get caught in a reactive cycle where problems persist because the solutions offered are surface-level fixes, not permanent changes. She encourages leaders to step out of the Drama Triangle by taking radical responsibility for their role in the issue. By doing so, we can stop blaming others and start creating real, lasting solutions.

Conscious Activism: Moving Beyond Judgment

When it comes to activism, especially in areas like climate change, many people fall into the Drama Triangle. Activists often view themselves as heroes, blaming others for the problems they see, whether it’s corporations or individuals who don’t recycle. But Diana offers a different approach. She suggests that we approach these issues from a place of openness and curiosity instead of judgment.

This doesn’t mean we don’t care about the issue. Rather, it means that we recognize that judging others won’t bring about change. Diana challenges activists to argue for why climate change might even be necessary or helpful. While that’s a radical concept, it helps shift the mindset from “problem” to “opportunity for learning.”

When we stop seeing the world in black and white, we allow ourselves to be more creative and collaborative in finding solutions.

Radical Responsibility: Owning Our Role in the Problem

At the heart of Diana’s teachings is the idea of radical responsibility. Whether in leadership, activism, or personal relationships, we all have a role to play in the dynamics we find ourselves in. Diana encourages us to ask ourselves how we co-create the problems we’re facing.

For example, if your team at work is disengaged, instead of blaming external factors, you might ask, “How have I contributed to this dynamic?” By owning our part, we take back control and have the power to change the outcome. This shift from victim to creator allows for more agency and leads to real transformation.

Practical Exercises for Conscious Leadership

  1. Morning Tears: Diana practices what she calls “morning tears.” Each morning, she finds something to cry about, allowing herself to feel the heartbreak of the world—whether it’s a news story or a personal loss. This practice keeps her connected to her humanity and helps her avoid getting stuck in the Drama Triangle.

  2. Physical Movement in the Drama Triangle: Diana recommends literally moving through the Drama Triangle roles (Victim, Villain, Hero) to become aware of how often we fall into these reactive states. By physically moving through these roles, we gain awareness of our unconscious patterns, making it easier to step out of them and into conscious leadership.

  3. Argue the Other Side: In any decision-making scenario, practice stepping into the shoes of the opposing viewpoint. By arguing for the other side, you not only deepen your understanding of the issue but also open yourself up to creative solutions that honor both perspectives.

Final Thoughts: The Importance of Self-Love and Curiosity

Diana leaves us with a powerful message: self-love is foundational to conscious leadership. Each morning, she asks herself, “Can I let it be okay to be me?” This practice of accepting our flaws and strengths is essential for creating the inner space to grow and change. When we can love ourselves fully, we’re better equipped to love others and create the change we want to see in the world.

Conscious leadership isn’t about being perfect. It’s about staying curious, taking responsibility, and recognizing that transformation begins within. Whether you’re leading a team, fighting for climate action, or navigating personal relationships, these practices can help you create meaningful and sustainable change.


For more insights from Diana Chapman, check out these resources:

By adopting these conscious leadership practices, you’ll not only improve your relationships and decision-making but also contribute to a more collaborative and curious world.